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Repairing "Junk" guitars
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Author:  David Newton [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Repairing "Junk" guitars
You guys doing repairs, don't you wish you could work on fine vintage guitars all the time?
Where I live, the place is full of old junk guitars!

I make a pretty nice living on junk guitars, and it's because of 1 word, "sentimental value".
Conversations go like this:

Me: "your grandfather bought this guitar out of the Sears catalog, it didn't cost but a few dollars, but it is going to cost a lot to get it playing again."
Them: "I don't care what it costs, I want to give my grandfather's guitar to my son. Fix it up."

Another one: "Someone threw away my first guitar, and I found this one at a garage sale, it is exactly like mine."
Me: "Well the reason it is in such good shape is that it wasn't playable when it was new, and it was tossed in the closet, till you got it. It needs a neck reset, the bridge needs gluing cause it was only screwed on, and if I scallop the braces it will sound better than ever."
Just joking about that last part.

Image

So the lesson to you kids? Not only did I make money keeping 1 more junk guitar out of the dump where they belong, I wasted a good 10 minutes writing this post.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Nah David you didn't waste time. A friend here in Nashville told me (after I had rebuilt a couple of old guitars) anybody that brings an old guitar back to life is aces in my book. Those are my feelings as well. I've got a bid in on one just like you posted.


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Author:  Colin North [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Junk Guitar?
I'll take that Stella out of your way.
Wouldn't want you to trip over it and hurt yourself :D
Author:  RusRob [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Colin North wrote:
Junk Guitar?
I'll take that Stella out of your way.
Wouldn't want you to trip over it and hurt yourself :D


I agree... If you are calling that Stella junk then you have not seen some of the crap I have worked on laughing6-hehe

I have run into a few repair guys that think it is so far below them to fix a no brand guitar for what ever reason. One of the "regulars" that use to frequent this forum told me he would send people packing if they walked into his shop with anything less than a Gibson, Martin or Taylor... To me that is just bad business practice because you never know if the guy that brings you a piece of crap is just testing you to see what you can do with it before he lets you touch any of his real collection. Ask me how I know that?

So I personally welcome no brand guitars as long as they are reparable and not really junk and the owner has the money. I find it a challenge to make them play better than they ever did when they were new.

Yep'er... I'll take that Stella any day.

Cheers,
Bob
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I don't like to turn down work but I'm always honest with the customer about it's value. I hear the same exact comments as well. I think today's junk guitars are a lot better then yesterdays. I just played a new solid top Yamaha that sells for $200 and it sounded a heck of a lot better then a 40 year old Sears guitar that needs a neck reset. But I do understand sentimentality though and that has a certain value. Sometimes with the junkers though you find that it's costing you more to fix it as you end up doing more work to get it right. So I'm real careful with the super junkers but I would fix a sentimental Stella any day :)
Author:  Jeffrey L. Suits [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
1) I'm not a repair snob, far from it. That said:

2) "Sentimental value", means 1/2 down, upfront.
Author:  Glen H [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Jeffrey, you sound like you're tired of sentimental paychecks...LOL
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I fix Stellas all the time...

But seriously anytime there's a huge job on a cheap guitar, charge very high down payment because there's a good chance the customer could just abandon the instrument... after you did the work.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Did that kind of work in the 70s. Had to settle for old Stellas and Gibsons.

Pat
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
The real plywood nightmares came from Japan early on, and nowadays from all over the east.
At least cheap American guitars had some redeeming value and a sense of craftsmanship.

I hated working on anything from St. Louis Music, etc.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Stellas aren't bad guitars though, at least they are still made of wood rather than plywood. I have no idea what the fingerboard on those Galianos are made of though... looks like rosewood but incredibly brittle. It is impossible to refret them without serious chip out.
Author:  Frank Ford [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
It's a matter of perspective. Most of my work is on high-end instruments, and I really don't like doing expensive work on a cheap guitar when the owner of the instrument is convinced that it's somehow magical, special or valuable ($$$). I don't mind at all doing restoration on junky things where cost isn't an object and sentiment overrides monetary considerations. But, I insist on spending the time to educate the owners of such things!

That said, I do modest work on modest instruments, or quick & dirty repair on really cheap and bad ones - just to keep them in the fight. Some of the most rewarding stuff I work on are instruments for kids and other music learners. Being part of the local music community is my most important mission.

I've put in a fair amount of time working with middle school class guitars, and these days I do my share of pro bono work for an important and growing program to benefit veterans:

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http://www.heroesvoices.org
Author:  David LaPlante [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
During a repair/restoration discussion that I moderated at the last A.S.I.A. convention Al Carruth made an important point about the perils of restorers assigning their own notions of "value" to the instruments that they were working on based on their own preferences or prejudices or in some cases ignorance.
Value isn't just monetary or position in the pantheon of the instrument world.
I've seen very rare, important and unique instruments butchered because at one time or another someone considered them "junk".
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I just (won) an eBay auction for a 60's model Kay. Needing a lot of work. Actually bought it for the "Kay" logo. It's not the real big Kelvinator K but it'll work.


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Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I know of very few luthiers who would turn away work on budget instruments due to any arrogance or pious sentiment that it is somehow 'beneath them'. To the contrary, in our shop and I'm sure in many other's, we turn away work as a matter of conscience in not wanting to steer clients toward investing in expensive repairs in cases where that same money could better suit their needs by putting it toward a replacement.

For us it is actually extremely rare when we unilaterally refuse to work on an instrument, but rather that after the investment, value, and return are openly discussed with the customer, they make a more educated decision on their own, and overwhelmingly express gratitude and thanks for our honest advice (especially when it seems on the surface to go against our own financial interests).

There is really very little "I'm too good to work on that junk" attitude among professionals in this market though. To the contrary, most are willing and enthusiastic to keep any instrument they can going. When you make your living at this though, you need to be compensated for your time, and if the instrument does not warrant the investment necessary then there is no shame in resigning them to wall-hangers or project guitars for hobbyists.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Tai Fu wrote:
Stellas aren't bad guitars though, at least they are still made of wood rather than plywood. I have no idea what the fingerboard on those Galianos are made of though... looks like rosewood but incredibly brittle. It is impossible to refret them without serious chip out.

Huge difference between the Oscar Schmidt Stellas of the Teens/20's/30's and the Harmony Stellas from the 40's ish and beyond. Some Galianos were made by Oscar Schmidt, some by Italian luthiers based in NYC. Night and day wrt quality and sound compared to the Harmony Stellas.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I just got an old Kay in the mail today. It cost me fifty bucks. A little repair here and there and I'll betcha I find a kid to get interested in it. What ya think?


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Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
Had a kid brought me his grandma guitar, she had died , was a 70s Japan special . The neck was pulling away from the body . So I shot glue under the heel and took a strap button and 2" wood screw and screwed the strap button on the heel all the way into the block. It pulled the heel down tight . Glue set tuned and 25.00 later he was happy kid .
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
RusRob wrote:
Colin North wrote:
Junk Guitar?
I'll take that Stella out of your way.
Wouldn't want you to trip over it and hurt yourself :D


I agree... If you  To me that is just bad business practice because you never know if the guy that brings you a piece of crap is just testing you to see what you can do with it before he lets you touch any of his real collection. Ask me how I know that?


Cheers,
Bob


Had this happen to me to
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
For me, I consider every instrument I service to be a cumulative resume, one which my clients (both current and potential future ones) will read. Of course few will ever see more than a tiny snippet of my work, and given that you can never be sure who will see what little snapshot, I do my best to ensure every piece is one I am willing to openly put my name and stamp of approval behind.

Of course there is "appropriate workmanship" which can be utilized for different instruments, but there's a fine line between doing a quick and dirty fix as a favor to help someone get by, and leaving something which could be appraised as garage hack work out there for who knows who to view as your credentials. What may seem like doing a favor for someone can quite easily translate to doing yourself harm if you aren't careful.

As to clients bringing cheap junkers as "trial projects", of course it happens, but not so often for us (as we've done well enough with prior work out there that a good reputation is already well established before a client brings their instrument in - that's why they chose to come to us). Still, in cases where this may happen, what do you think instills greater confidence - saying "sure, we'll just slap some glue in there, quick 'n' cheap, Bob's your uncle", or an honest consultation on the cost and benefits of doing the job right to fully realize benefit from their investment?

If it's a cheap shady fix'n'flip wheeler dealer then your willingness to do cheap and dirty work can be appealing, and you will have secured an ongoing relationship with the worst kind of client I could imagine. If this 'trial visit' were from an owner/collector who really cares for their instruments and is willing to pay to have the work done right though, they will see much greater value in a craftsman who takes pride in doing it right or not doing it at all. We've earned the trust of many long time clients by demonstrating our willingness to advocate for their interests when an instrument may need more work than is worth putting in to it.

The only cases where customers have ever been unhappy with us turning work away have been shady dealers looking to spend near nothing for the proverbial "spray some paint over the rust" treatment, so that they can make a quick buck and pass the problem on to someone else.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
I've got lots of kids in my world. So I buy cheap guitars of eBay. Put them in working order and find a kid who wants to play. No they're not the best guitars but I got started on a 5$ Stella in 1949. If it turns one kid on then it'll be worth it. Just bought an old Kay and have a bid in on an old Harmony hope I get it. Lots of kids out there.


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Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Repairing "Junk" guitars
An update I have the old Regal supposedly made by Harmony. Can't wait to see It.


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